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Why do some people find sexy things sexist?

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Previous Entry Why do some people find sexy things sexist? Nov. 17th, 2008 @ 03:28 pm Next Entry
As a gamer one of the things I keep hearing is how games are so sexist, which is mostly true because they are targeted for horny teenagers, but something that really bothers me is when people talk about good non-sexist female roles and only use Jade from Beyond Good & Evil and Alyx from Half-Life...

The reason they claim they are non sexist? Because they "don't have large breasts and look like ho's"....

And this is what bothers me, because you're basically saying that the sexier the protagonist, the more sexist the game is!

Can't a woman have large breasts or be sexy and still be looked upon as a positive role model? Look at Monica from Wapsi Square! But then again, some people claim Wapsi Square is sexist for the same reason, because it has sexy ladies in it!

Something is sexist when it makes women look bad or like a sexual object, the problem is that it seems that some people think that your character is a sexual object for simply not being ugly!

Beyond Good & Evil would still be a non-sexist game even if Jade was in a bikini and those silly Dead or Alive games would still be sexist even if they all had breast reductions and dressed like nuns... It's about what they do, not about how they look!

It's not like Lara Croft tries to seduce her enemies, right? So why do so many find her sexist?

Am I making any sense here?
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From:tanukitsune
Date:November 17th, 2008 04:05 pm (UTC)
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I'm just trying to say that some people think a character is sexist just because they look sexy while I think you have to act sexist and looks don't count?
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From:tanukitsune
Date:November 17th, 2008 08:05 pm (UTC)
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I guess as a male I can't grasp it completely...

I know fanservice is bad, and shouldn't be done, and while Lara was fanservice at first, she's now more realisctic and less pandering, yet they only see her as a pair of breasts. She's no longer that floozy that appeared in bikinis in all gaming magazines...

I guess "sexy" can be taken as an offensive world, but I don't think every man who buys a game with a "sexy" lady it does it just because it has a pretty lady in it... That sounds kinda sad...

But pin-ups ( I suppose that's what you could call the art Paul sells?) can be tasteful, right?

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From:ryuko_midori
Date:November 17th, 2008 04:23 pm (UTC)
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There's a difference between being a sexual object and being hypersexualized. There's no way to divorce the physical attractiveness of a character from their context as a sexual object. As far as Lara Croft goes, though if you look at what the character does it doesn't seem sexist, the reason for making a wasp-waisted huge-boobed heroine whose ass you stare at while you play the game is evidence enough.
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From:tanukitsune
Date:November 17th, 2008 07:25 pm (UTC)
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She's more realistic in the newer games now that a new company is doing them, but I think I see what you mean? Fanservice is quite sexist, but it's a shame Lara is trying to be less fanservicey and yet people only see her as a pair of breasts.
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From:cleanskies
Date:November 17th, 2008 05:38 pm (UTC)
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I have a friend who works in computer games who repeated to me the common story of Lara Croft -- her breasts were originally a scaling error, which the programmer who made showed around the office, as a joke. His boss said no -- this is genius. We keep them as they are. And -- worldwide success. She even appeals to women (who aren't as bothered by big breasts as men are -- after all, many of us have them ourselves). But:

Why would it make it more or less sexist if Lara Croft had to seduce her enemies? Would it be more or less sexist if the Lara Croft figure were a second life hotboy? Would you feel uncomfortable playing a sexy male character? Would more women play games if there were an option to toggle into looking at a hot guy's arse while they were playing?

It's true that the "big tits = sexist", or even the more subtle "sexualise/sexy = sexist" arguments are lazy generalisations, but it doesn't mean that there is no problem because of that.

You have some good starting questions, but you need to think about this more carefully.
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From:tanukitsune
Date:November 17th, 2008 07:31 pm (UTC)
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I also heard she was going to be a male, but they scrapped the idea because she'd be to close to Indiana Jones?

Seducing her enemies would sexualise her even more, right? I don't mind playing as hot males although the males are usually brutish orge-like marines, the only "hottie male" I can think of is the Prince of Persia, who is pretty awesome and spend most of the game shirtless! XP

I didn't expect to make some ground breaking comments, I just wanted some answers and insight... ^^;
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From:lordrexfear
Date:November 17th, 2008 08:58 pm (UTC)
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Sexy MALE in videogames.

Leon in Resident Evil... mrowr! AND he has a nice ass! Seriously... play the game and just watch him run. That guys ass is amazing!

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From:mawthekiller
Date:January 28th, 2009 09:15 pm (UTC)
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Well best I have understood the deal is if the game's subject is around the looking of a hot chick and nothing else it is sexist. Rumble Rose(I think is the name of the game) which the whole point is to google at women like a yahoo. That is what I think is what makes a game sexist is that looking at women and that is the point. The Dead Or Alive games can be considered it at times to be sexist, but the DOA Extreme Volleyball can be since the point of the game is to get the most revealing swimsuits. A good example of a non sexist character is the Bride from Kill Bill because the character is strong and taking down all since she is taking the use to be male only role.

Best I can understand it is because the fact that characters in game are more marketed to guys rather then girls it panders toward sexist because of that. The industry can be considered sexist as a whole because for the most part the only games made for that audience have been like Barbie. So you can see the reasoning for why some may say it is sexist. Truth be told the only thing that makes sense for a character being sexist is that if the character is just stereotypical, or cardboard with no dept.

Any character that can be considered to be there because it will make the player go "oh s/he is hot" and that men for the most part don't really care about it while women do. Thought the whole thing is two face deal because most gals that get upset about the thing don't care if they are doing it to a guy. This is speaking generally and based on my experiences which may not reflect on to all.
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